$80 a Month, Unlimited Visits: Direct Primary Care Explained

[0:00] Health and wellness is confusing. There's a new trend every week. Everyone's got an opinion, and half the time, you can't tell what's legit and what's just good marketing. And we get it. We're in it too. Welcome to Dialed In Health. I'm Melissa Goodwin. Every episode, we bring in the people who actually do this work, providers, practitioners, the experts who see clients and patients every day. We ask the questions you'd ask

[0:21] if you were sitting across from them so you can find the right people, make better decisions, and feel confident about what's out there, whether it's peptides, gut health, water quality, ADHD, biohacking, or something you've never heard of, we're covering it. So let's get into it. Let's get dialed in. Welcome to today's edition of Dialed In Health. I'm really excited because this one, we're gonna hearken back a little bit

[0:47] to how medicine used to be practiced when a doctor would show up at your door with a doctor bag. Prior to my time, I don't remember any times like that, but I've heard of this, right? When my parents were little. And we're gonna talk a little bit about direct primary care. So this is a newish model in some places in the country. You may have heard of it more than others. But today I am at Prairie Roots Health with Sam Niewenhuis,

[1:12] who is a family nurse practitioner, family practitioner who can see just about anything from what I'm understanding. And I'm really excited for our conversation. Welcome to the show. Yes, thank you. So first, before we like tell us direct primary care, it's kind of a new model, different than maybe what most of us are used to when we go to the doctor. So can you explain what direct primary care is? Yeah, so I like to say direct primary care

[1:36] is an innovative alternative to insurance driven healthcare. People pay a low monthly fee and in return, they get a lasting relationship with their provider who happens to be me. And they can build that trust that way and get the care that they need, so. Okay, so for those that maybe like never, this is still a little foreign. You pay a monthly fee. And then what do I actually get? So I might pay between 60 and $80 a month, is that right?

[2:03] Yeah, yep, yep. So 60 for children, 80 for adults. And essentially you get me. You get your relationship with your provider. So I give people my cell phone number out so they can contact me if they have urgent needs after hours. They get unlimited visits here with me at the clinic. So everything from, hey, I just wanna come in and I saw this thing on the internet or they send me an email, unlimited contact. So it's just opening

[2:27] that door of access to them. That makes it easy. And I love that because there's so many times where you're like, is this something I should be worried about? Or is this something that is like totally fine? But I don't wanna make a $200 appointment at my doctor, a $400 appointment to go find out if like this weird growth on my arm or mole or something's tinnitus or whatever it might be. So tell me, you know, I always thought that was more for like

[2:55] really wealthy people. They could message my doctor, but you do that for everybody. Yeah, that's one, I guess, Hill, we've had to climb as a direct primary care community, DPC community across the nation is getting it, people in the mindset that this is for everybody. I just, my mother-in-law told me this weekend that Netflix subscription is like $45 now. And it's like, okay, well, yeah, for $15 more, you can pay to have

[3:22] unlimited healthcare visits with a primary care person with your kid. You know, it's like, it's, the price hurdle is not as unrealistic as people think. They keep raising the price of that Netflix and I didn't even realize that. Yeah, it's insane. So how many visits can a person have with you for that monthly fee? Yeah, it's technically worded as unlimited. With the, you know, I think it's very rare people bought in, you know,

[3:46] they generally respect the barriers of like, hey, I'm not gonna literally see you every day. Right, right. You have to set that up, set those boundaries up with patients. But you know, most people get it. Most people are realistic and normal people and they respect you and how it operates. So, hasn't been an issue. So tell me how many text messages do you really get? A lot? So after hours, almost none. Okay. I have a few patients

[4:14] who are very early patients that knew me that are very comfortable with me. But other than, I mean, realistically, you just kind of set it up of, hey, use the patient portal mostly, unless it's something really urgent. And I would say I have less than five patients who are comfortable texting me and it's rare that I get texts from them, but. Okay, so how long, if I were to come into Prairie Roots and set up a visit, how

[4:36] long is a typical visit? Because I know, I used to work in healthcare for a lot of years and there was like, they, you know, physicians are paid in RVUs and you have like 15 to 20 minutes and that's it. What does your visit look like? I take an hour with many patients. So when you come in and schedule that first visit, we get a solid hour. And the nice part is, even if we don't make it through everything, you have a lot to talk about, you know.

[5:01] I'm very just like, hey, come back next week and you know, we'll finish our conversation, we'll get labs. In the meantime, we'll do all this other stuff. You try this and we'll just touch base next week and have you in again. So, a solid hour. And that's an hour I get in front of you versus when you go to the normal doctor, there's 15 minutes with the nurse asking you all the questions like, this is face to face, hour time.

[5:22] Yeah, that's the one thing I've noted. Like you go to the doctor, you meet with a nurse and there's usually another nurse that comes in and asks more questions. And the doctor comes in and asks you the exact same questions again. Sometimes the nurse comes back for labs and then, you know, you just, it's very, it's kind of like this machine that you're in. So, if somebody, one of the things that, that's always been frustrating to me when I've tried to,

[5:48] they asked, do you have a primary care provider? And I'm like, no, because I never see them. Why would I even bother? Because every time I'm sick, I call in and I get whoever is available. If I'm sick and I call in here, what happens? So, either I answer the phone or the front desk answer the phone and they're right across the wall from me and they just get a message to me and it's as easy as that. I purposely keep a couple

[6:13] slots open a day for my members if they do need same day appointments. So, there's always gonna be availability when you need it. You know, we make sure to prioritize that. But it's very, in conventional medicine, yeah, they just have too many patients, too full of schedules. They just don't have the time to be able to flex and get those patients in same day. So, let's talk a little bit around the insurance or the money side a little bit.

[6:38] Because I do think that's one thing that people struggle with, right, with these new models. Because we're so used to paying insurance and getting services, then you get a bill in the mail, like sometimes it's six bills, maybe, afterwards. Tell me, how does that work with your system? We're very transparent with our fees. We have a small lab draw fee when we draw labs just to help cover costs. And we do have a full-time phlebotomist, typically.

[7:04] And it's just that monthly subscription fee and that's it. So you're never gonna get a surprise bill in the mail. I'm a firm believer that insurance is way too influential in conventional medicine and dictate way too much of the patient-provider relationship, which really should be sacred. And that's what this is really trying to bring back. So, if we can eliminate any of those financial questions, barriers, concerns for people,

[7:28] and they just know up front what they're gonna pay when they come see me, that's really the goal. That's really what we're trying to get at. So, do you not need insurance? So, we encourage people, I have patients that don't have insurance, but I encourage people to have some sort of backstop for insurance, whether that's an Aflac catastrophic hospitalization plan, whether that's a high deductible plan with an HSA account

[7:50] or a health share like Samaritan Ministries, have something for that, you know, you get appendicitis end up with emergency surgery, you know, you're gonna be stuck with a huge bill if you don't. So, it's wise if you can afford it to still have some sort of catastrophic plan. In case there's a car accident or a cancer diagnosis or something that requires quite a bit of Yep. extensive medical intervention. So, how do you help

[8:16] someone who may be just an average person who's working that doesn't have a lot of extra money? Yeah. How do you help them kind of overcome this like, "Have insurance, why would I pay out of pocket?" Like, how do you work through that with them? Whatever barrier we can break down to at least get them face to face with someone. Because it sounds like you're describing the person who's, you know, lower income, you know,

[8:39] maybe even qualifies for like a Medicaid type situation where they're getting some sort of government assistance. We know in conventional medicine, just getting that person through the door is huge because those are the people that'll flake on appointments, you know, not show up, not pick up their prescription, not be compliant. So, when you pay cash for something, you're getting that buy-in too of people. A lot of times it really

[9:05] eliminates that patient almost all together for us on our end because people are ready if you're handing over money, it feels different than just using a Medicaid benefit. Sure. It almost feel like you're stealing, right? So, that buy-in there we experienced great buy-in from patients and, you know, they do well there, so. Yeah. So, when somebody spends a year with you, you know, like if they're spending, if they need to do some labs,

[9:31] like what would be, what would you say a typical all-in cost for direct primary care? If the patient's never had expansive labs drawn before, you know, 100 to 150 bucks, I can get what they would get at a regular doctor plus everything you would see on a, you know, Dr. Axe panel plus probably some more actually. So, we can get really affordable wholesale lab costs and, you know, any DPC provider can do that, you know,

[9:57] there's a little extra hurdle of shipping, but it's great. I mean, we can, a lot of times even cheaper than using your insurance, just paying the wholesale costs for labs. So, you've been doing this now for almost a year, is that right? Yep. Tell me a little bit about how would you characterize the folks who've come to see you so far? Like, what kinds of people come to see you? Oh man, I've had cute old men all the way down to newborn babies.

[10:21] We've had a variety. I mean, I have a really good mix of age group. I think a third of my practice is children, two thirds is adults and then, you know, a handful over the age of 75. But really seeing all types and most of them share their, some sort of concern with conventional medicine, whether that's because they're super, super crunchy, eating organic chicken, you know, doing all the things versus someone just had a bad experience.

[10:47] And now they're here at our door because they want something different and they don't even know what functional medicine is, or what this clinic does, but they know that I have primary care. Right. So I think one of the things that many of us, because we just sort of like look at a big hospital and say, oh, that's where I go if I'm sick, or if I'm not feeling well, most people don't even realize there's alternatives to traditional care.

[11:13] Yeah, that's been a big challenge for us is getting in the community of Sioux Falls, as DPC is new, and so people just don't know that there's another option out there. And so getting people to think outside that box has been the challenge. And I think we're making headway. And I think too, people just underutilize primary care doctors and family practice. Providers don't practice at their fullest extent either. You know, they're busy

[11:36] and they don't really want to do that skin biopsy. They would rather just refer to dermatology to do it. You know, they don't have that extra time to spend with patients. They really could do more than what the system is allowing them to do. And we get to do that here, which is great. So tell me a little bit more about that. So you say we're underutilizing primary care. Tell me more. So traditionally primary care should be a gateway

[11:58] to the specialist, right? And now we can, you can call up an orthopedic doctor for shoulder pain that actually might be your gallbladder, but you think it's shoulder pain. You really should have help deciding what specialist you need to see, right? We should, as family practice providers, be able to do a simple skin biopsy without seeing dermatology and waiting eight months. You know, we have training and experience in these areas

[12:21] where we can do more than time allows. A lot of times on the conventional side, you know, you are just limited by throughput and time and insurance burden. And so they end up getting, you know, I did plenty of rotations with people that's like, they refer everything out and they don't do, they don't spend the time to work up anything. It's like, oh, you think you might have a thyroid problem? Just send them to endocrinology, you know,

[12:41] like just very quick, easy button referral out when they should be utilized more. Got it. Okay. That makes sense. And I guess, you know, dermatologists are really hard to get into by the way. That's insane. And part of that, this is part of the reason why. Yeah. Because like you do not need to see a dermatologist for probably 90% of the things that actually get sent to dermatology. Yeah. I guess I'd never thought about that.

[13:02] You're right. So that's, that's good to know. How do you, let's say, you know, because you're a smaller clinic or if somebody does, you feel like they need an x-ray or a specialist or they need medications, how does that work with you? Super, super common question. Whatever facility is doing the image or lab or procedure, they're the ones that bill insurance. So if you carry, I can refer out to Sanford or Avera, whatever I want done there.

[13:31] And then they're the ones doing the billing with your insurance. So I get to stay completely hands-free off of that. But if you need to see a specialist, I can get you there. You know, I can refer you just like you would any other doctor. So it's a great option. And that's part of the reason why we like to have people maintain health insurance on the back end. Do you run into any providers from your old life when you were in the traditional health,

[13:56] are they jealous? I wouldn't say jealous. They're more confused, like just, okay, cool. If it works, it works, you know. So it's just, it's new to them too. I mean, most providers haven't, most medical providers haven't heard of this either. And so. I see, or I've run into a lot of, so I used to work in the innovation space and I would work with a lot of docs that, and all kinds of providers, not just doctors, that brilliant ideas, they wanted

[14:25] something different. And they all kind of dreamed of like, what if I went off on my own? But you're in this system and you've, I don't want to say golden handcuffs, but you're used to it, you know how it works. Sometimes the W knows easier than the one that you don't. It's kind of brave to go off and do something different. Like what made you want to do that? I was in a place, both professionally and personally, that I was ready for a change.

[14:50] So personally I had begun learning about functional medicine, had changed how my family was living. My wife had some personal gut related issues. So we did a lot of functional medicine, gut things with her, trying to fix her. One of my kids had a tongue tie. We just had a lot of personal things that were leading us down the space. And then just professionally, I was ready to be able to spend time with patients to actually do things

[15:16] that I think they need instead of fighting with insurance. Spending the time, I was notorious and back at my old job for being in a room for two hours with a patient, just talking and getting to know people. And that allows me to, this allows me to do that, to kind of do medicine the way my personality and the way I want to do medicine, without anyone telling me what to do. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, so I think, I guess it was just to say,

[15:41] there's a lot of people that do wish they could sort of move into a space like this, but it just seems so unfathomable to them to do that. So I think that's great. So when people come through your door and they see you, what is they, do they give you any like, oh, this is different than I expected. What do they say? Most people are like really bought in and enthralled with the first visit. I mean, they're like, oh, this was great.

[16:08] This was so much different than my regular doctor. It just, cause I mean, the space feels different. The leisure, the casualness of having a conversation, the time we get to be thorough, they're like, this is what people, typically what they're wanting at their regular doctor, what they're expecting even, from a regular doctor. And it just frees us up to be able to do that. And so, I mean, I haven't had anyone walk out of my door

[16:34] initially unhappy. They're never coming here again. Yeah, yeah, most people are like, yes, I'm up. Once you get them through this door, they're sold on the model. They immediately see the benefit of it and how it can be powerful and what kind of service it brings to them and how they can use it. So I sort of made a little bit of a hat nod to the old days where the doctor would show up with a doctor bag. You do that too, like

[16:57] you will do house visits? I will do house visits. Okay. Yep, within reason. I've only done one. It was a neighbor of mine actually. We signed up for membership on the spot. I love it. We did it, but yep. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, we do doctor's visit within the Sioux Falls area. So tell me, I heard that there was a patient that had, they found out they had high cholesterol. So told they'd be on medication for life, never spoke to their doctor.

[17:27] Tell me about, can you tell me a little bit about some of the stories like that? Yeah, it is super common. I see it, I mean, I have, I can think of a number of patients off the top of my head where they ended up with me because a nurse called them to tell them that, hey, your blood came back as this or this doctor wants to start a blood pressure medication. And that was kind of the end of the conversation. Or even just a portal message of, hey,

[17:48] we're sending this script in for you on the computer. And that's just, I mean, when I was even in conventional medicine, I would try to take the time to call a patient if you're starting a med or changing something, especially in med they might be on the rest of their life. Like that's a big deal for people. I think doctors just, we just get really calloused of like how big a deal it is for people to like go from no medications to a

[18:10] prescription medication. That is, makes people feel old, it makes people feel different. It's a big deal and it's just a small thing to make people feel comfortable of like, hey, I'm gonna actually give you the respect to call you or have you back in to talk to you about this before we start this. Yeah, and it is a big deal if you haven't, a lifetime med is not something to be taken just nonchalantly, I would agree with that.

[18:35] I've got a few things. Now you, I saw on your social media, is it kombucha? Were you making kombucha or bread or something from scratch? We make a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about your passion projects at home or your food. Yeah. Yeah, what do you do there? I'm kind of the food guy around here. Yeah, so I'm part of something called the Weston A. Price Foundation, which has been a big influence on my family's health and how we eat

[19:01] and frankly how I counsel patients to eat and talking about children's nutrition and even adults and that kind of thing. But yeah, there's some principles that that foundation advocates for which is animals on pasture, fermented vegetables, raw milk and fermented dairy products, freshly milled grain, bone broth, you know, a variety of things like that, that becoming fairly popular in the crunchy natural world, but very healing and great things.

[19:36] So we do cut all of it. So do you mill your own grain and do you have one of those things? Do you make your own bread? My wife mostly does. I made freshly milled, I made freshly milled buttermilk pancakes this morning. Okay. They just take the wheat, they call them wheat berries, which I learned this a couple of years ago. And then you just have a plug-in mill and you just pour it in the top and out comes flour. That's something, you know, I

[19:55] had an Uber driver in Austin and he said he used to work at like a flour mill and I was like, okay, whatever. He's like, they are disgusting. And he started telling me how the bugs and the larva would lay eggs in like the top where the flour is and how many insects and bugs are in flour and he's like, there's actually a percentage that's allowed. That's nice. In like, so your cereals and all the things because there's no way that he's like,

[20:22] they would scrape them out. So disgusting. Yeah. Now the flour mill makes sense. Yeah, and it's great. Cause the second you grind that, it starts oxidizing. And the longer it sits, it becomes less nutritious and more inflammatory to you cause it's oxidized. So like the store bought flour is just empty calories and nutrition, whereas a freshly milled whole grain wheat is actually quite healing. Okay. Interesting. So sounds like you've done a lot of work

[20:50] around the gut and food and food health. So why do you think that there's so many people young people that are having gut problems? There's, I mean, this is a giant rabbit hole. It is a rabbit hole. There's a lot, but one thing is we just don't do a lot to maintain the microbiome. I mean, two things stick out to me. One is just lack of fiber consumption. We have a lot of processed food with low fiber, right? We should be getting 30

[21:15] to 50 grams of fiber a day, which is frankly difficult to eat that in whole food. And so between that and then fermented foods provide probiotics, right? And so 200 years ago, we didn't have refrigeration. We didn't even have modern canning, right? So the only way to preserve food was through fermentation, both beverages, condiments, eggs, you name it. They were fermenting it. It would stay shelf stable for a really long time that way.

[21:43] So with every meal they were eating something fermented, something with probiotic, and so they're constantly nourishing their gut. And I think the benefits of fermented food kind of go ahead of me. I mean, people know they're good for you. I mean, short chain fatty acids, butyrate, the amount of fiber in it, it unlocks nutrients for certain nutrients that otherwise wouldn't be available. It pre-digests the food for you.

[22:04] It usually has a ton of fiber. I mean, all the probiotics in it. I think kefir's got 60 to 80 different strains of bacteria in it when you do homemade kefir. It's just incredible, yeah. Well, and it's just, you know, I grew up in the 80s where everything was like low fat, or it was like they actually added more sugar because everything was low fat. And I don't even remember hearing the word kefir. So it's for a lot of

[22:27] people like me, Gen X, where you grew up on Kool-Aid and cereal and whatever, even that has gotten different over the last 30 years in terms of what's in those things. kefir and milled bread sounds so foreign. How do you have people make that leap to? Yeah, I mean, a lot of people who I end up having this conversation with, they're already ready for a big change. It's like, you know, I try to get them in the mindset of,

[22:53] hey, this is gonna do more for you than any supplement or medication I can give you, if what you're putting in is so important. And people kind of know that. People kind of know that intuitively. But we do, my wife and I have taught a couple classes with this talking about how we do our food prep at our house. I have four kids and our fifths on the way. If I can do it at home, you guys can do it. It doesn't take that much more time.

[23:20] It just takes a little forethought. And we've walked people through that. We've recorded that and have that available for patients. So we try to do what we can to get people started in the right direction. Yeah, baby steps. A couple of, some small changes can make huge results. Oh yeah, and now you can just do one thing at a time. Don't do everything. Start with soaking your beans. Just get in the habit of that first or something.

[23:43] Yeah. Or something easy. So I have some statements that you can tell me true or false. Direct primary care is just concierge medicine with a nicer name. I think there's a partial truth in that. No, DPC is more strictly cash-based and completely free of insurance entanglement. Concierge, a lot of them will still bill insurance for patients. It's usually quite a bit more expensive and they have way less patients. So I mean, some of

[24:13] those concierge service, 50 patients, you know. I'll carry a little more on my panel. Two to 400 is kind of what I'm planning of. That's the most I'll ever be able to take at one time. So you said you cap your panel at two to 400. What is typical primary, that's like the number of patients you have, right? Yeah, yeah. For those that maybe don't know what those terms mean. On membership, yep. So what is typical primary care?

[24:37] Three to 6,000 depending on the system. Wow. This is crazy. Yeah, I mean, that's why when you call, you can't get in for two or three weeks. Or you have to go to urgent care or ER or something because they're just booked out and they just have too many. Too many. All right, you can't use HSA for direct primary care. You can use HSA to pay the direct primary care fee. Okay. So it was a gray area before January. This January it became officially

[25:03] announced in tax code that you can use HSA for paying for direct primary care. And that's for your subscription as well? Yep, yeah, that's what I mean. Yep, subscription, yep. All right, it's only for wealthy people. That is totally false. Typically, I haven't actually had a lot of, I don't think wealthy people, I guess. I don't know what my patient income is, but no, it actually makes healthcare somewhat more affordable a lot of times.

[25:29] If you switch, you lose all your medical records. That is false. You are an owner of your medical records. Wherever you've had care before, they're legally required to maintain those records for you. So it's just a matter of requesting them and getting copies and things like that. You have to be into alternative medicine and alternative lifestyles to fit in. Absolutely not. Okay. We get people from all walks of life, the people who are just

[25:54] totally hardcore conventional and they just want a better product to people that are outside of conventional space because they don't like pharmaceuticals. I mean, we get the whole gambit, so. What would you say to folks who say this is just a fad? I think that, I mean, the original DPC clinics were starting in 2010, 11 were kind of the initial ones out on the East Coast, from my understanding. And it's done nothing but grow over the last,

[26:20] I mean, we're close to 20 years of DPC being a thing in the United States. So I think it's well past the fad stage, yeah. All right, so who, if you think about the people who should be calling you tomorrow, somebody who's like an ideal patient for you, what is that, who would those people be? I think it's that person that just can sense something is not sufficient with primary care. I think most people, they end up getting the care

[26:48] that they need and heavy air quotes there, but they just feel like it's insufficient or they're missing something or they're just a little unsatisfied. Those are the people that don't even realize that there's a better product out there that they want, that they don't even know they need, yep. What about like if you've got a chronic illness? Yeah, yeah. Is that something that you help manage? Yeah, so I am nearly complete with my Institute

[27:13] for Functional Medicine training and certification. I have one course left. It's, I mean, really the gold standard of functional medicine training. So I pull in functional medicine concepts to how I do primary care. So if the person needs that, I'll pull that in. I mean, people get functional medicine from me all the time. They just don't even realize they're getting it. Okay. Because I mean, most of functional medicine

[27:34] is talking about your lifestyle. What are you eating? How are you moving? These things that I just work that into how I care for the normal patient, so. So is there anyone that, in terms of how Prairie roots and your overall ethos and what you believe and your style of work, is there anyone that this is not for? I wanna say no. I think we can, especially me having my background in conventional that I can get along with pretty much anyone.

[28:01] Okay. And can find a space that's right for you. We don't wanna touch pharmaceutical or supplements. We don't have to use supplements. If you don't wanna touch pharmaceutical, I'll advise you, but we can try doing the supplements. But I'm gonna tell you what I think and what you need. But if you're not willing to invest in your health, cause there's that barrier there, I think that's the type of person, if you're really tight

[28:24] and you don't wanna pay that $80 a month to get a better product and invest that little bit extra time and effort into your care, you're not gonna like what I have to say to you either of, hey, you gotta do this or change how you eat or start moving a little bit more. It'd be harder. So it sounds like maybe if somebody's looking for a pill to fix everything, it's probably not the right fit. I could do it. I've done it a lot.

[28:46] I don't know. It was part of my conscience in conventional medicine was I've had to do that a lot and I inevitably will get people like that. But yeah. Ideally we'll find some other things that we can help look at first. If somebody's interested but a little nervous, not sure what's the first step. Yeah, so I offer, we call the meet and greet, just a 15 minute in person or phone call with me. So you just call the office and say,

[29:13] I wanna chat with Sam for a while and kinda see and I'd be happy to talk to you or meet you at the office and just go over what the questions are and concerns are. All right. Well, if somebody wants to find you, how do people find you? Where do they look you up and get in touch? Yeah, the clinic's all on social media, Instagram and Facebook, Prairie Roots Health. And it's very easy if you Google Prairie Roots Health, it'll pop up here in Sioux Falls

[29:39] and just give the clinic a call. Absolutely, all right. Well, we'll make sure to put those in the show notes too. So if you're watching on YouTube, you can click on the description. We'll put a link to Prairie Roots Health and Sam Niewenhuis and his name, Sam Niewenhuis and you can connect and call directly there. But thank you so much for describing direct primary care to us today and the new model and just so that people know

[30:02] that there's an alternative. Yeah. If things aren't working out. Anything else you would want people to know about the work that you do? I don't think so. I think we can make things work for a variety of people and backgrounds. I would just encourage you just sit down with me, have a conversation. Absolutely, okay. Well, great. Thank you so much for being on the show. We'll look forward. I know there's lots of things we could talk about.

[30:23] So we'll look forward to maybe having you again down the road to talk about some other stuff. All right, take care. Yep. Hey, that's our show. If someone came to mind while you were listening to this, if you thought, "Hey, my sister needs to hear this," or, "I should send this to my mom," or, "My buddy would get a lot out of this," please share it with them. Just hit the share button and send it their way. You never know what one

[30:45] conversation, one episode, or one piece of information can do for someone who's been looking for answers. And if you haven't subscribed yet, please do it now. It takes two seconds. It's free and it means you won't miss an episode. We've got incredible stuff coming up and I don't want you to miss any of it. And if you're a health or wellness provider and you wanna be on the show, we'd love to hear from you. There's a link in the

[31:05] show notes to get in touch. We're always looking for people doing interesting work who wanna share what they know. And one last thing, I get asked all the time about the products and brands I actually use. So I put together a list of sponsors and favorite products that have worked for me and my family. If you're curious, that link is in the show notes too. Thank you for being here. And I really mean that. I'm Melissa Goodwin.

[31:25] The line is open. See you next time. (upbeat music)